More from the River CC meeting at the Community Centre earlier this evening(Tues) - River Cllr Stephanie Whittaker had been asked by several dog owners as to why there were still signs telling people that dogs were not allowed on the West beach when they in fact are. Tommy Hogg said that the signs were illegal anyway to which Cllr Graham Marsden replied that the signs were not illegal but unenforceable. There was much laughter and then he continued "they probably never have been enforceable." Graham then asked the River CC if they wanted them removed. When the matter went to the vote the members voted as follows.
For removing the signs - Iain Gordon
For retaining the signs - John Dolan, Jeanne Tolmie, Mike Henderson, Stephanie Whittaker.
Leslie Boulton abstained and Tommy Hogg didn't vote.
Early this morning one of the regular dog walkers on the West Beach told the Gurn that the signs were "dishonest and cowardly". These observer believes that the signs could lead to arguments on the beach as those in the know continue to ignore the signs and those who believe them to be true might remonstrate with dog owners, leading to unfortunate scenes.
This commentator believes that not everything in the world can be solved with signs. If some dog owners are letting their animals crap on the beach, or anywhere else in Nairn for that matter, then where are the famous Highland Council enforcement officers? If dogs are not under control anywhere then ring the police and complain. Well done Iain Gordon the voice of reason on the River CC on this subject last night - what a pity he was outvoted.
UPDATE 14/05/10 Recent troubles on Google Mountain or wherever Blogger is kept on servers has meant that around 36 hours worth of comments have vanished. They may come back but in the meantime this blogger has extracted, hopefully, all of them from e-mail notifications and inserted them as five long comments.
27 comments:
It is too easy to buy a dog and nobody tells you how difficult it is to look after them and that they are a great responsibility. I got dog poo over the bottom of my trousers and shoes because someone for whatever reason was unable to clean up after their dog and I was too busy looking after my own dog to notice it was there. I take my responsibility seriously but it is not easy these days with less money to spend on dog stuff.
For Dogs sake can I go for walkies with my law abiding owner who paws every time he see the sign & Poos Poos about it & thinks what a waste of money who took the lead to have it erected in the first place is Mr Hogg correct in stating that its illegal & as for Mr Marsden is he barking mad, oh thats my master calling me its time for walkies along the beach & there is a poodle in heat who goes for a sroll the same time as me, so i may be in luck, Woof Woof.
What is the point of these signs if they are illegal and unenforceable. They just mess up the links and cause grief, i have already explained to visitors that they can take their dog on the beach, PITY NAIRN IS RULED BY INCOMERS.
this is going to cause problems when folk who have seen the sign aproach you and tell you dogs not permitted on the beach
I've seen many owners walking the beach whilst letting their dogs run in and out of the dunes. Impossible for them to check as to what their dogs are up to when they're out of sight
Dogs owners are responsible people is often a statement rolled out, dog dirt says something else, and unfortunately there's plenty of it about
The signs i think should be removed.The Area that they are in you get a lot of Visitors and Holidaymakers from outwith Nairn coming to visit. If anybody that walks pass the signs and sees them they could get on to responcable dog owners that are doing nothing wrong. These signs give out the wrong information so they should be removed.
These are Highland Council signs so what mind games are they playing with the people of the town? Yet another example of how the Council officials treat the plebs with contempt! If they are unenforcable, end this farce now - take the signs down.
Better hope we have lots more incomers
http://www.petesy.co.uk/welcome-to-scotland-fill-up-before-you-get-here/
Unbelievable! This situation can only lead to confusion, potential confrontation of dog owners, arguments and possible escalation of same. What an appalling (cowardly?)decision.
I am not a dog owner,but I do like dogs, the reason I don't have one is because I couldn't be bothered with all that poo cleaning up.
When I walk along the beach I see lots of dogs doing what they shouldn't in the sea.. no one can clean that up.
So here is my question..
why would anyone walk their dog along a beach when children are swimming,building sandcastles, and people are picnicing and sunbathing?
That is wrong, which ever side of the fence you stand on.
I think people need to be a bit more considerate as to where they walk their dogs, its common sense surely. It should not be a case of its not illegal.
why would you want to take your dog on the beach to poo in the water, in the summer months when children are swimming and people are havig pinics. Its disgusting and very selfish behaviour.
I find the term Incomers devisive and derogatory.
Just who are these incomers and what exactly does this term mean?
Are incomers all the people who now live in Nairn and cannot supply a family tree of Nairn residents going back a few hundred generations?
What do they look like, talk like? Do incomers always hold different views to 'locals'?
Just where do you draw the line?
Should you draw a line at all?
Are you saying that no one else should move to Nairn unless they can produce some kind of proof of pedigree?
All those who by some arbitrary definition don't belong here should move away from here?
You can come and live here but you must not interfere or express opinions on any matter?
You must put up and shut up?
Nicola Sturgeon is quoted as saying "Scotland should be a welcoming and tolerant country, geared to attract vital skilled workers and protect those fleeing for their lives from elsewhere."
I have also read that the SNP consider anyone born in Scotland or anyone who has made Scotland their home to be Scottish, they simply want a Scottish Parliament voted for by the people of Scotland to have the final say on Scottish affairs. They even state they want an independent Scotland that is a part of the European Union.
Surely we should all be treated as equal citizens?
By all means have a serious well informed debate but focus on the points being made not who is making them.
See SNP web site the story of 3 Scots
http://www.snp.org/node/11987
incommers definition:
People who come to live in Nairn and after only a few months think they can give a very outspoken oppinion about what should and shouldn't happen here.
How do you define 'outspoken'?
'given to expressing yourself freely or insistently'
'characterized by directness in manner or speech; without subtlety or evasion'
'blunt''frank' 'forthright'
Are outspoken people perceived as rude?
Is outspokeness the issue in itself in that people in general should be less forthright?
Is is that it is felt that people must earn the respect of others before they can express their opinions in a public manner?
Should outspoken people should not come to Nairn?
Are long term residents allowed to be outspoken?
Should it be a rule that you should think carefully before you say anything when you move anywhere in case you upset people; ease yourself in gently?
Yes, ease yourself in gently wih a bit of subtlety, and you will find the majority of Nairn folk will accept you for what you are.You might still be classed good or bad but you will be accepted.
I have found that Nairn folk are very welcoming and kind people,but then I didn't move here and immediatly start complaining, I waited an acceptable length of time . About 20 years!!
Goodness, an anonymous raw nerve was obviously touched there !
However... to get back to the original subject. I'm not a dog lover, and I do think one section of the beach should be kept clear of the blasted things. Many dog owners seem incapapable of comprehending that some people just don't like dogs, especially when they come jumping around you uninvited and obviously not under the owner's control.
As a compromise, they could be allowed on the beach, but kept on a lead.
We'll see how this goes but we might have to get back to dogs/jobbies/beaches only on this thread!
Are we Nairnites just happy for the simple things in life to happen & just go with the flow with little fuss & to go about our business in a gentle manner with dignity & respect but what is it with the so called incomers that always want to change things in towns up & down the country to give you an example a woman [redacted by the Gurnmeister - individual could be identified], & there is more a couple who moved to outside Cawdor complained that too many tractors go through the village, I could go on & on what is it with the incomers {not all} that want to change everything it would be interesting to find out how many are members of school boards, community councils,church committees,youth organisations etc
etc. Ye just canna win wee them.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
It is too easy to buy a dog and nobody tells you how difficult it is to look after them and that they are a great responsibility. I got dog poo over the bottom of my trousers and shoes because someone for whatever reason was unable to clean up after their dog and I was too busy looking after my own dog to notice it was there. I take my responsibility seriously but it is not easy these days with less money to spend on dog stuff.
FIDO has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
For Dogs sake can I go for walkies with my law abiding owner who paws every time he see the sign & Poos Poos about it & thinks what a waste of money who took the lead to have it erected in the first place is Mr Hogg correct in stating that its illegal & as for Mr Marsden is he barking mad, oh thats my master calling me its time for walkies along the beach & there is a poodle in heat who goes for a sroll the same time as me, so i may be in luck, Woof Woof.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
What is the point of these signs if they are illegal and unenforceable. They just mess up the links and cause grief, i have already explained to visitors that they can take their dog on the beach, PITY NAIRN IS RULED BY INCOMER
dr-grigor has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
this is going to cause problems when folk who have seen the sign aproach you and tell you dogs not permitted on the beach
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
I've seen many owners walking the beach whilst letting their dogs run in and out of the dunes. Impossible for them to check as to what their dogs are up to when they're out of sight
Dogs owners are responsible people is often a statement rolled out, dog dirt says something else, and unfortunately there's plenty of it about
Ealan-Donon-MacRath has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
The signs i think should be removed.The Area that they are in you get a lot of Visitors and Holidaymakers from outwith Nairn coming to visit. If anybody that walks pass the signs and sees them they could get on to responcable dog owners that are doing nothing wrong. These signs give out the wrong information so they should be removed.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
These are Highland Council signs so what mind games are they playing with the people of the town? Yet another example of how the Council officials treat the plebs with contempt! If they are unenforcable, end this farce now - take the signs down.
Seafield has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
Unbelievable! This situation can only lead to confusion, potential confrontation of dog owners, arguments and possible escalation of same. What an appalling (cowardly?)decision.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
Better hope we have lots more incomers
http://www.petesy.co.uk/welcome-to-scotland-fill-up-before-you-get-here/
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
I am not a dog owner,but I do like dogs, the reason I don't have one is because I couldn't be bothered with all that poo cleaning up.
When I walk along the beach I see lots of dogs doing what they shouldn't in the sea.. no one can clean that up.
So here is my question..
why would anyone walk their dog along a beach when children are swimming,building sandcastles, and people are picnicing and sunbathing?
That is wrong, which ever side of the fence you stand on.
I think people need to be a bit more considerate as to where they walk their dogs, its common sense surely. It should not be a case of its not illegal.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
why would you want to take your dog on the beach to poo in the water, in the summer months when children are swimming and people are havig pinics. Its disgusting and very selfish behaviour.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
I find the term Incomers devisive and derogatory.
Just who are these incomers and what exactly does this term mean?
Are incomers all the people who now live in Nairn and cannot supply a family tree of Nairn residents going back a few hundred generations?
What do they look like, talk like? Do incomers always hold different views to 'locals'?
Just where do you draw the line?
Should you draw a line at all?
Are you saying that no one else should move to Nairn unless they can produce some kind of proof of pedigree?
All those who by some arbitrary definition don't belong here should move away from here?
You can come and live here but you must not interfere or express opinions on any matter?
You must put up and shut up?
Nicola Sturgeon is quoted as saying "Scotland should be a welcoming and tolerant country, geared to attract vital skilled workers and protect those fleeing for their lives from elsewhere."
I have also read that the SNP consider anyone born in Scotland or anyone who has made Scotland their home to be Scottish, they simply want a Scottish Parliament voted for by the people of Scotland to have the final say on Scottish affairs. They even state they want an independent Scotland that is a part of the European Union.
Surely we should all be treated as equal citizens?
By all means have a serious well informed debate but focus on the points being made not who is making them.
See SNP web site the story of 3 Scots
http://www.snp.org/node/11987
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
incommers definition:
People who come to live in Nairn and after only a few months think they can give a very outspoken oppinion about what should and shouldn't happen here.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
How do you define 'outspoken'?
'given to expressing yourself freely or insistently'
'characterized by directness in manner or speech; without subtlety or evasion'
'blunt''frank' 'forthright'
Are outspoken people perceived as rude?
Is outspokeness the issue in itself in that people in general should be less forthright?
Is is that it is felt that people must earn the respect of others before they can express their opinions in a public manner?
Should outspoken people should not come to Nairn?
Are long term residents allowed to be outspoken?
Should it be a rule that you should think carefully before you say anything when you move anywhere in case you upset people; ease yourself in gently?
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
Yes, ease yourself in gently wih a bit of subtlety, and you will find the majority of Nairn folk will accept you for what you are.You might still be classed good or bad but you will be accepted.
I have found that Nairn folk are very welcoming and kind people,but then I didn't move here and immediatly start complaining, I waited an acceptable length of time . About 20 years!!
Shankee Doodle has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
Are we Nairnites just happy for the simple things in life to happen & just go with the flow with little fuss & to go about our business in a gentle manner with dignity & respect but what is it with the so called incomers that always want to change things in towns up & down the country to give you an example a woman [redacted by Gurnmeister, individual could be identified], & there is more a couple who moved to outside Cawdor complained that too many tractors go through the village, I could go on & on what is it with the incomers {not all} that want to change everything it would be interesting to find out how many are members of school boards, community councils,church committees,youth organisations etc
etc. Ye just canna win wee them.
Nairnac has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
Goodness, an anonymous raw nerve was obviously touched there !
However... to get back to the original subject. I'm not a dog lover, and I do think one section of the beach should be kept clear of the blasted things. Many dog owners seem incapapable of comprehending that some people just don't like dogs, especially when they come jumping around you uninvited and obviously not under the owner's control.
As a compromise, they could be allowed on the beach, but kept on a lead.
ploughman bill has left a new comment on your post "Not "illegal" but unenforceable signs to stay on W...":
Niver thoct the Gurn wid gae saft
fit is it wee ya loon get a grip look at a the comments this fits a the gurn is a aboot getting peoples dannders up fit would have happened if ye mentioned aboot the wifey in the puckle lines that shankedodle wrote but ye went saft & scared in case she could be identified so fits the matter we that then wid it have made ony difference, if this attitude carries on I will hiv tae set the dog unyae, Richt sae tak heed.
Gràisg
Sorry if not delighted Ploughman, please accept a full refund and two year’s free subscription.
How long does it take for an incomer to qualify as a "Nairn folk"
I know it is not unusual for all the
required documentation to go missing in the post.Although it has been known to turn up in the "inbox" now and again.
We have kids and a dog now from Munlochy rescue, and would be perfectly happy for dogs to be disallowed from central beach.
There are irresponible owners whose mess affects everybody, and it's not as if the town is short on beaches to take the dog for a walk on.
However, leaving the signs up is confusing. Much better to remove them or replace with responsible owner signs.
Not sure why the River CC want to simply confuse visitors on the issue.
By the way:
"PITY NAIRN IS RULED BY INCOMERS."
I think that was a typo for INVERNESS? :)
(Good to see you got the comments back up, Graisg - sent you a copy of some of them earlier, but looks like you've had this covered).
We got our kids via a friendly stork, but I'm sure Munlochy rescue is also a good source
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